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music: "Good" vs. "Valuable"


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#61 Kai

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 02:37 PM

Meeeeooooooowwwwwww! Actually, I meant to say "here, kitty, kitty...!"

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The expression all cats will wear post-peak oil.

Ed, you know I'm kidding, right? I love cats (and pussies.)

Silk strings were traditionally used in Chinese, Japanese (kotos) and Persian instruments, I think.

There's also a silk-like synthetic made from wood pulp called lyocell, a "sub-category of rayon."
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench - a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side..." - Hunter S. Thompson
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#62 wjjones

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 05:33 PM

Britney Spears' music. Okay, I can criticize it for being commercial, unoriginal, and derivative and wish a certain torturous death upon anyone who buys her cd.


:D

One thing I can say in Britney's defense in the "good vs valuable" debate, is that her video performances still remain marginally pleasurable and therefore have some value with the sound turned off, which is more than you can say for some old crusty hippy fella playing his art.....

:lol:

(Well I found it funny anyway.... :lol: )


While I'm not really attracted to Ms. Spears, I do agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying. I've got a recording of that Kylie Minogue video that I can't stop watching. I'm thankful I don't feel that sensation for the crusty hippy fella. That's not to say that someone doesn't. :lol:

I do have to say that I did have an interesting sensation at a live performance by classical guitarist, Sharon Isbin. I still don't remember exactly what music she played, though. It could have been "Who Let the Dogs Out." It just didn't matter. :D

Regarding value, I do think it's important not to compare apples to oranges. How can a pop song or performance be judged by a completely different set of criteria than for which the song was intended to fulfill? Likewise, I don't think a sonata by a historic classical composer should be judged by hip-hop criteria. They're two different animals. To say one is overall better than the other is to say that one color is overall better than the others. I don't think a pale shade of green is a good color for a school crossing guard's vest, but I do think it's a pleasant color for the school's interior. Likewise, a dayglo orange room isn't exactly conducive to quiet concentration, but it's great to get our attention where it counts.

The pop top 40 is primarily determined by 15 year old girls, not 45 year old eggheads.

My 75 year old dad is a George Jones/Conway Twitty kinda guy and no amount of explaining or exposure to Metheny or Godspeed You Black Emperor is gonna have a lot of effect on his preferences. Perhaps, expanding his horizons can be viewed as an admirable thing on one level, but as Kai has been hinting at, the attitude assumed by the "superior" individual is more than a bit unsupportable, philosophically speaking, unless your philosophy is tyrannical ethnocentrism.

My dad's set of formative experiences is different from mine. The same is true of 15 year old girls. While I hate taking the stance of a sackless relativist, I can't think of any supportable reason why their music is inferior to mine, provided each is judged by its own criteria.

#63 wjjones

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 06:03 PM

In terms of the superiority of acoustic music over electric or synthesized music, I don't think that's supportable either. You can't get certain sounds or performances out of acoustic music that you can get from electric. How does that invalidate electric music?

I can perhaps best illustrate my perspective based on some discussions I've had in regards to instrument building. Just like the argument between acoustic and electric music, there's an on-going debate about power tools versus hand tools. As if it's somehow more honorable and "real" to use hand tools to build with. Honestly, having power tools at our disposal, I think it's wasteful of time and resources and fairly indulgent to shun them for any other reason than just the thrill of building without power tools.

My main argument is that even hand tools are modern technology compared to stone knives and sharpened sticks, so if your philosophy is about the "real", why not build with just a chipped rock and a pointed stick? Why use tools at all? Good luck with that.

Likewise, it can be argued that even acoustic instruments are sophisticated modern constructs of available technology.

Ninety-nine percent (my hyperbole) of the music we listen to isn't even played on instruments at all. It's an electronic reproduction of a performance on an instrument. To claim that acoustic music is superior would be to claim that recording is inferior and the only true music is that produced live by acoustic instruments. Such an ideology discounts a vast, VAST amount of musical experience.

#64 Paul Shigihara

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 06:40 PM

Ninety-nine percent (my hyperbole) of the music we listen to isn't even played on instruments at all. It's an electronic reproduction of a performance on an instrument. To claim that acoustic music is superior would be to claim that recording is inferior and the only true music is that produced live by acoustic instruments. Such an ideology discounts a vast, VAST amount of musical experience.

thank you... i've been saying that often enough but it didn't get through...

Silk strings were traditionally used in Chinese, Japanese (kotos) and Persian instruments, I think.

yes, sir !

#65 Guest_Meow-PawKins_*

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 06:54 PM

Meow-PawKins in the House!


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#66 Newbie Brad

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 07:54 PM

I can perhaps best illustrate my perspective based on some discussions I've had in regards to instrument building. Just like the argument between acoustic and electric music, there's an on-going debate about power tools versus hand tools. As if it's somehow more honorable and "real" to use hand tools to build with. Honestly, having power tools at our disposal, I think it's wasteful of time and resources and fairly indulgent to shun them for any other reason than just the thrill of building without power tools.

My main argument is that even hand tools are modern technology compared to stone knives and sharpened sticks, so if your philosophy is about the "real", why not build with just a chipped rock and a pointed stick? Why use tools at all? Good luck with that.

Likewise, it can be argued that even acoustic instruments are sophisticated modern constructs of available technology.


About the tools and instrument building, I like both the work of a fine artisan and the fit of the CMC carved instruments. And about the acoustic guitars, there certainly is a lot of design work going on now with the Kasha bridges, elevated fingerboards, beveled body shapes, carbon graphite soundboards (and in some case whole instruments)... within the traditional shapes there remains incredible vitality to refine and innovate.
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#67 Edward Powell

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 08:38 PM

Meeeeooooooowwwwwww! Actually, I meant to say "here, kitty, kitty...!"

Posted Image


The expression all cats will wear post-peak oil.

Ed, you know I'm kidding, right? I love cats (and pussies.)

Silk strings were traditionally used in Chinese, Japanese (kotos) and Persian instruments, I think.

There's also a silk-like synthetic made from wood pulp called lyocell, a "sub-category of rayon."


I am curious if anybody knows how plastic and nylon are made.... I mean, are they made from waste products of the oil refining process, or do they actually take pure oil and make plastic from that?
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#68 jahloon

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Posted 09 May 2008 - 11:01 PM

Just use the friggin' cat and get on with it. :lol:
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
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