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So how long do you think it'll be until Fender or one of the bigguns makes a fretless?


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#31 WolfV11

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 09:25 PM

Fretless guitars for metal.......


When I had auditioned for the band Ikillya ( ) I had showed up to a few sessions with a fretless guitar. The members of the band LOVED the way it sounded. However in my short time playing with the band I did not get to use it too much; mostly due to the fact that i was focusing more on 7 string oriented material for this particular band, and at the time i did not have a fretless 7.

I think however, that fretless is perfect for metal, if not, then without a doubt a possible future for metal music.

You have the lowest action possible, so shred maniacs would LOVE this fretless world. Then comes the issue of sustain, but it really isnt an issue when you think about it. Sustaining long screaming notes is perfectly possible with a good nail stop, or sustainer/ebow thing. And for shred parts, you would be almost encouraged to play EVEN FASTER because normal notes do not sustain as much. You do however loose the stereotyped "Zakk Wylde" style harmonic bends, due to not being able to bend, and when you try to shift the pitch of some of those types of harmonics, the harmonic tends to die out from the momentum. As a result you get pinched harmonics manipulated a smaller level resulting in more of what i call a "sting" sound (listen to the first track on Madmen and Sinners to hear what im talking about in the fretless world). and while this does sound cool its not a replacement for those horsey sounding screaming harmonics that are very essential in metal.

The biggest problem is that it requires a new set of techniques to master, and most people do not want to be bothered with relearning the instrument, and i think this goes for other genres as well.

Im perfectly happy however that there isnt a generic fretless player, or a typical big name company making one and why you may ask? because by playing a fretless guitar I am set on my own as "Eric "Wolf" Jackson" without being compared to other players of similar style and taste as much if i were to play a "regular" guitar.

Before I started playing mostly fretless, I cant tell you how many times people would listen to my music and say "this reminds me of satriani, vai, etc." not that I dont mind being compared to some of my personal idols, but its just nice to be playing a fretless and have someone go "Holy shit thats crazy! Ive never seen that before....theres no frets!! WTF!?!?!" and it instantly separates me from every guitarist that other people know.

If and when the day comes however that fretless hits the mainstream, I am sad to say that I believe it will be like what happened with the 7 string guitar in the 90's. It will be popular for 5-10 years and then after that, it will become stereotyped into one particular genre or style and will be looked down upon such as the 7 string is now "Ew you play 7 strings?? what are you into KoRn, do you play Nu-Metal??"
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#32 n4vgm

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:04 PM

"If and when the day comes however that fretless hits the mainstream, I am sad to say that I believe it will be like what happened with the 7 string guitar in the 90's. It will be popular for 5-10 years and then after that, it will become stereotyped into one particular genre or style and will be looked down upon such as the 7 string is now "Ew you play 7 strings?? what are you into KoRn, do you play Nu-Metal??"

That is very insightful. One difference between FG and 7S though is that with 7S you have a much better chance of finding a teacher. Even a 6S teacher could at least get a total new player going in the basics and could teach the additional scales/chords from a book, the basic skills of picking and finger/hand position would be the same.

With FG, the chances of finding a fretted teacher who will help you from square one would be much less and finding a fretless instructor near impossible. Since most of us live in countries that use the 12T system, I think a new FG player wold be better served to learn fretted guitar first and work from there. Trying to find scales on FG is hard enough but many new guitarists I've taught have no formal music training beforehand so they don't understand tonality an music organization from a mental perspective, only auditory. By starting on a normal guitar the student can begin branching into FG while playing music that is familiar and also is able to play with other "untrained" guitarists thereby having more fun in the process. In countries with alternative music systems the guitar is usually not a standard for their music so they have the same problems from different angles.

So, back to our topic. I think FG won't be exploding in popularity with new players no matter what star guitarist plays one since most of the music in countries where discount instruments are plentiful will sound mostly the same whether played fretted or fretless. Add to that the lack of instructors, FG will remain a niche for players with some experience even if it's just a couple of years. The real question is how can we, as enthusiasts, increase the world wide size of the niche market.
Bob Z...........

#33 Guest_Michelle_*

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 09:39 PM

Yes, metal is the way to go because one can use enough distortion to cover their aweful intonation of 5ths!

#34 cchhrriisstt

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 11:34 PM

I'm agree with the fact that Fretless guitar fits well in metal. I play fretless guitar for some years in a metal band (not shred metal !) and that's sure that fretless guitar has got a future in metal and help to get an odd music. The French band Lofora used to play metal with fretless guitar too.

#35 Chilly Willy

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 07:46 AM

"what sort of monster we had released if 14 yr olds plunked away in guitar shops on fretless"

Atonal "Stairway to Heaven"!



:vomit:

#36 Chilly Willy

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:12 AM

But why do we want Fretless to become mainstream? :angry:

I actually like the idea that Fretless guitar is something different. I doubt it if it will ever get big. Just like the Chapman stick, it is an amazing instrument that created new techniques and sounds and even though it has been well exposed to the world, mainly through Tony Levin (King Crimson, Peter Gabriel) it is still a rather obscure instrument.

I would HATE the day I walk into Guitar Centre and find 10 different Fretless guitars, that would SUCK!!!! Imagine Fender having Custom Shop Strats, 60's Stratocaster Time Machine N.O.S.(New Old Stock) made by master builder "Johnny not so Good" bla bla bla....... :vomit: .......FUCK That!!

Fretless will always be for the brave ones (fool) that dare to be different and have "muchos cojones"..............

Can you imagine the New York Fretted Guitar Festival 5? :lol:

That just can't happen! Actually we should do what Eddy van Hallen did at the beginning, he played with his back to the public so nobody could see and steal his "new" technique. We should all play with our backs to the public and people will be wondering how we get those amazing slide sounds!

#37 Guest_Michael Vick_*

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 09:01 PM

Well, I am just having fun with it like this morning on a local tv show. :angry: :lol: :vomit:

#38 jahloon

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 11:02 PM

Well, I am just having fun with it like this morning on a local tv show. :angry: :lol: :vomit:

Fantastic MAV!
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#39 Chilly Willy

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 07:31 AM

Well, I am just having fun with it like this morning on a local tv show. :angry: :lol: :vomit:



Good job Michael! I absolutely LOVE that accent! Sooooooooo American! :lol:
So now maybe somebody else down in Carolina will pick up the guitar (guitar said with a thick American accent!) "gí-tar". Brad has this amazing accent as well and let's not even mention Pantha! He's the king of accents!

#40 jahloon

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:29 PM

Well, I am just having fun with it like this morning on a local tv show. :angry: :lol: :vomit:



Good job Michael! I absolutely LOVE that accent! Sooooooooo American! :lol:
So now maybe somebody else down in Carolina will pick up the guitar (guitar said with a thick American accent!) "gí-tar". Brad has this amazing accent as well and let's not even mention Pantha! He's the king of accents!

Jeez Willem,

I thought all day about the reply to this one.

Far from me to be the one to break it to you, but, people in America speak with American accents.

No shit, its true!

And what you may find even more surprising, different areas have different accents. Brad and Pantha have a Southern drawl, MAV is a little North of that, and like we found out in September, those folks in NYC are a different deal again.

Tomorrow's lesson: Eskimo words for snow (starting with the yellow stuff)
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#41 Chilly Willy

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 08:13 AM

Well, I am just having fun with it like this morning on a local tv show. :angry: :lol: :vomit:



Good job Michael! I absolutely LOVE that accent! Sooooooooo American! :)
So now maybe somebody else down in Carolina will pick up the guitar (guitar said with a thick American accent!) "gí-tar". Brad has this amazing accent as well and let's not even mention Pantha! He's the king of accents!

Jeez Willem,

I thought all day about the reply to this one.

Far from me to be the one to break it to you, but, people in America speak with American accents.

No shit, its true!

And what you may find even more surprising, different areas have different accents. Brad and Pantha have a Southern drawl, MAV is a little North of that, and like we found out in September, those folks in NYC are a different deal again.

Tomorrow's lesson: Eskimo words for snow (starting with the yellow stuff)



No shit Sherlock! Jeff, you are a genius!!! :lol:


I actually never noticed that! And I lived in USA for 5 years and I always thought Americans had and English accent and that Brad and Pantha are the only exception! And then I discovered MAV's accent and thought this was also an exception!

Actually when I first came to Holland and listened on the BBC I thought that that British accent was wonderful and difficult to understand. And now after living in Holland for 23 years I find British accent very normal, can understand it 100% (except that fucked up humour you and Gaza have) and I think American accent is so funny! Specially Hilly Billy English!

But the best accent is French people speaking English! It is a KILLER!!!!
Have you ever heard Rapid? It is this French dude that speaks with a very very thick French accent in English and if you don't pay close attention it seems to be French!

And my French sucks but when a Spaniard speaks it I can understand it a lot better than when a French frog does!!!

"ouch"

#42 gazmungus

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 08:36 AM

Well, I am just having fun with it like this morning on a local tv show. :angry: :) :vomit:


:lol: MAV's wearin' make-up! MAV's wearin' make-up! MAV's wearin' make-up!

How delightfully meterosexual of you old fella..... :D

I loved the bit where you got a bit technical.


(well done M8)


But the best accent is French people speaking English! It is a KILLER!!!!
Have you ever heard Rapid? It is this French dude that speaks with a very very thick French accent in English and if you don't pay close attention it seems to be French!


Don't you mean "Rapido"? Is it still going? That would be the perfect reportage show to do a piece on the DFGF!

I remember the offshoot show "Euro Trash" with himself and Jean Paul Gautier and the puppets "Pee Pee" and "Poo Poo"

It was just a huge excuse to show lots of naked women on late night TV if I remember rightly - otherwise it was total dross :lol:
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#43 Guest_THE beer hunter_*

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:50 PM

Don't you mean "Rapido"? Is it still going? That would be the perfect reportage show to do a piece on the DFGF!

I remember the offshoot show "Euro Trash" with himself and Jean Paul Gautier and the puppets "Pee Pee" and "Poo Poo"

It was just a huge excuse to show lots of naked women on late night TV if I remember rightly - otherwise it was total dross :vomit:

Rapido was quite good fun, and Eurotrash had Lola Ferrari (wasit?) with the unfeasibly large knockers, they killed her in the end.

They had the incredibly ugly naked painters.

Antoine de Caun was the guy (was he?)

#44 Kai

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 02:12 AM

Actually when I first came to Holland and listened on the BBC I thought that that British accent was wonderful and difficult to understand. And now after living in Holland for 23 years I find British accent very normal, can understand it 100% (except that fucked up humour you and Gaza have) and I think American accent is so funny! Specially Hilly Billy English!


Back in my band days (80s) we joked around with a lot of wordplay and such (Janice the singer in her thick Boston accent, but that's another story), and one day I discovered, speaking of British accents and Southern accents, that Lewis Carroll's poem Jabberwocky was vastly improved by reciting it in a thick peckerwood (redneck, hillbilly) accent... (Tho my voice ain't nasal enough to really do it justice.)

There are many Southern accents, actually. Dallas ain't Macon which ain't Asheville, etc., as my Chattanooga-born Boston housemate Lori used to say. Some I find quite pleasant, much nicer than my Maritimes/Boston grandmother's accent was.

English may have more dialects/patoises/creoles & accents than any other language, except maybe Spanish. French has quite a few, partly because of its former empire, but nowhere near as many. The documentary & book The Story of English, by (Canadian) Robert MacNeil, goes over quite a bit of that subject.
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#45 Chilly Willy

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 08:46 AM

I've read that Cantonese is so different in the north of China from the south that people have to write it down to be able to understand each other. :vomit:

Spanish is the second most native spoken language in the world and Mexican Spanish is the most common, there are 90 million Mexicans..... :angry: ...




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