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My Trip to Cairo


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#16 jahloon

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 10:35 PM

Nah! That's me Ma!

Love the expression on the camel's face...


Love the expression on J's face too! Is he having fun without involving alcohol? Let me guess his smile was short lived, when he'd experienced the level of anal sores that were imminent!

Must've played buggery with yer chalfonts, Dude!?!

I was young then and Chalfontless, carefree and gay (well not that way) I like the pic 'cause me and the camel are grinning and the owner looks quite put out.

BTW Ed, Why did you need to replace the nut?

(Note the semi on-track, off-track nature of this post) :lol:
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#17 Edward Powell

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 11:18 PM

BTW Ed, Why did you need to replace the nut?


well..... err..... cuz the other nut sucked! :lol:

seriously... it was only about 2mm thick and string grooves cut rediculously badly... no prob, he gave me a new blank.

...i also had to practically reglue the bridge.
You know they make these thing on an assembly line - without any personal care - so you are lucky to find a good one, but you better have some luthiery skills to keep it all together. Otherwise, you better go to maurice I would say (even thought I 've never met him :ninja: )
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#18 jahloon

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 12:55 AM

BTW Ed, Why did you need to replace the nut?


well..... err..... cuz the other nut sucked! :lol:

seriously... it was only about 2mm thick and string grooves cut rediculously badly... no prob, he gave me a new blank.

...i also had to practically reglue the bridge.
You know they make these thing on an assembly line - without any personal care - so you are lucky to find a good one, but you better have some luthiery skills to keep it all together. Otherwise, you better go to maurice I would say (even thought I 've never met him :ninja: )

Ed, that was pretty much the impression I got - tourist grade stuff - if the tourists could find the shop!

The Egyptian musicians must be very frustrated.
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#19 Edward Powell

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 01:14 AM

Ed, that was pretty much the impression I got - tourist grade stuff - if the tourists could find the shop!

The Egyptian musicians must be very frustrated.


yes, of course the real tourist grade stuff is most obvious, but scratch just a bit and there is an enormous amount of stuff well above tourist grade.
the problem is that i need something that is pretty decent sounding... i mean, this is the same everywhere - - like istanbul, when you want something in the pretty cheap range, well, if you want something decent you have to know exactly what you are looking for, and then be willing to search and search. Otherwise, you will at best get a nice lookingish oud that sounds dead. ...i mean, even mine, which sounds good, i'm sure would have the bridge pop right off if i didn't catch it in time and get it nicely welded down with CA glue.

but this whole situation in places like istanbul and cairo is utter heaven compared to morocco for example. What an utter disappointment when i went there in 95'... however i did end up with a couple of good ouds from the best maker there--- but they were not so cheap.

for anyone wanting to get a really good oud for a decent price, the best deal i know of is RAMAZAN in istanbul. But if you got a bit of extra money - go for FARUK TURUNZ for sure.

In my opinion turkish ouds sound 'better' --- anyone up for a friendly debate on this subject?? :lol:

usually people relate ouds to arabic music, but in fact it came from turkey, and even further back persia... (barbat) - - - now we are talking about the true origins of the fretless guitar. Egypt was a relative late comer to the oud..... and across north africa even later. . . . . and eventually from morocco up into spain - - - and BINGO! -the rest is history :-)
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#20 jahloon

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 09:59 PM

but this whole situation in places like istanbul and cairo is utter heaven compared to morocco for example. What an utter disappointment when i went there in 95'... however i did end up with a couple of good ouds from the best maker there--- but they were not so cheap.

for anyone wanting to get a really good oud for a decent price, the best deal i know of is RAMAZAN in istanbul. But if you got a bit of extra money - go for FARUK TURUNZ for sure.

In my opinion turkish ouds sound 'better' --- anyone up for a friendly debate on this subject?? :lol:

I didn't find anything in Morocco, though there were a few "traditional" bands to be found, though far too many keyboard players (retuned) with dodgy singers.

Faruk Turunz looks a bit expensive for me, last time in Istanbul I was on a cumbus hunt (spoonerism alert! :ninja: ) and it doesn't do to return home to wifey with two new instruments.

Now as for which one sounds best... I wish I had the experience to argue. Go on tell me how much a '59 Faruk is worth. :w00t:
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#21 Edward Powell

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:07 PM

Go on tell me how much a '59 Faruk is worth. :lol:


in '59 Faruk was still teaching elementary school in Anatolia. He has only been building for 20 years. In the last ten years his ouds have become better and better because of his partnership.

actually $1500 is very cheap considering what you get with one of his ouds.... but $4000 for a double sound-board oud is a lot i guess - - - I have not heard them yet, but they must be great cuz lots of people are buying them.
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#22 jahloon

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:14 PM

Go on tell me how much a '59 Faruk is worth. :ninja:


in '59 Faruk was still teaching elementary school in Anatolia.

:lol:

actually $1500 is very cheap considering what you get with one of his ouds.... but $4000 for a double sound-board oud is a lot i guess - - - I have not heard them yet, but they must be great cuz lots of people are buying them.

I only saw the $4000 tag, never paid that much for a guitar...
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#23 gazmungus

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:22 PM

I only saw the $4000 tag, never paid that much for a guitar...


I have now, with my latest.... :w00t:

What's the differences between egyptian and turkish ouds then? I hear the egyptian is larger with loads of decorations and frilly knickers....




Go on tell me how much a '59 Faruk is worth. :lol:


:ninja:
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#24 Edward Powell

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 10:39 PM

differences btw arab and turk ouds:

-there are plenty! enough to catagorise them and different instruments. Iraqi ouds are again a different thing, and so is the playing style.
...but just talking about arab and turk ouds----

if you do a bunch of listening to both types you will quickly notice that each has a very distinctive tone - both of which are completely different than the other type.

there are plenty of subtle differences in how each is made, but the main difference in tone is actually a result of a different way that each type is braced.

arab and turk playing styles differ completely also. Arabs use a lot of right hand fast picking tremolo, and Turks prefer very fine left hand hammering decorations. Turks use extremely low action whereas Arabs put the double courses very very close together. . . .

i find it fascinating to compare thesse two.

at the moment i am immersed in the details of the arab maqam system, and again, the comparision to the turk system is fascinating me.
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#25 jahloon

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 11:13 PM

differences btw arab and turk ouds:

-there are plenty! enough to catagorise them and different instruments. Iraqi ouds are again a different thing, and so is the playing style.

Thanks for the insight Ed, there's an oud war in there somewhere. :lol:
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#26 Edward Powell

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 11:25 PM

differences btw arab and turk ouds:

-there are plenty! enough to catagorise them and different instruments. Iraqi ouds are again a different thing, and so is the playing style.

Thanks for the insight Ed, there's an oud war in there somewhere. :ninja:


Well, if you want my (very rough) take on it... perhaps the turks have the thing a bit more sophisticated, and they know it, but are perhaps a bit ticked that oud and maqam/makam music tends to be seen as a arab thing. Arabs themselves perhaps are not thinking too much about the turk side of it all, but the turks are perhaps quick to mention how much more refined it all is on their side.

Lots of salt here :lol: ...and after 3 months in cairo and meeting a lot more musicians, my opinion might totally change.

- - -

as for myself, i see huge advantages to BOTH sides, and it is my intension to take what i like from both, and leave the rest. Having said that, i think my oud style will always be more heavily weighted on the turk side, but i want to catch some of the arab stuff that the turks avoid - - - and some of the arab makams and microtonal placements are totally different than turk, and well worth learning.
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#27 jahloon

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 11:46 PM

as for myself, i see huge advantages to BOTH sides, and it is my intension to take what i like from both, and leave the rest. Having said that, i think my oud style will always be more heavily weighted on the turk side, but i want to catch some of the arab stuff that the turks avoid - - - and some of the arab makams and microtonal placements are totally different than turk, and well worth learning.

It will be very interesting to see your take on both sides, until your visit I would have thought the Arab side a non-starter.

:wub:
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Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#28 Edward Powell

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 11:54 PM

It will be very interesting to see your take on both sides, until your visit I would have thought the Arab side a non-starter.

:wub:


I guess what you mean is that you had all along taken the turk side as much more artistic??
- - - well, what I meant was that it seems to me that Western interest in makam and middleeastern music and OUD, seems to me to be 'arab-centric' ...in fact, i had been playing oud "professionally" for years before I myself fully understood the huge differences btw the two. ...and my impression from the beginning was that the turk side was a sort of watered down weak offshoot - rather than in fact perhaps the originator and more refined side. But this was perhaps just my own total ignorance --- i hardly had any idea (and still don't) of even what the OTTOMAN thing was all about!
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#29 jahloon

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 12:02 AM

It will be very interesting to see your take on both sides, until your visit I would have thought the Arab side a non-starter.

:wub:


I guess what you mean is that you had all along taken the turk side as much more artistic??
- - - well, what I meant was that it seems to me that Western interest in makam and middleeastern music and OUD, seems to me to be 'arab-centric' ...in fact, i had been playing oud "professionally" for years before I myself fully understood the huge differences btw the two. ...and my impression from the beginning was that the turk side was a sort of watered down weak offshoot - rather than in fact perhaps the originator and more refined side. But this was perhaps just my own total ignorance --- i hardly had any idea (and still don't) of even what the OTTOMAN thing was all about!

Well you know the Turks do not consider themselves to be Arabic.... and you should brush up on the Ottaman history.

Its just that all my visits to Arabic countries and Turkey led me to believe that the Turks had a deeper and more historical musical tradition, but hey, I'm only a tourist, I could be wrong. :wub:
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#30 Edward Powell

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 12:20 AM

Yes, that was my point... and it took me a long time to realise how different the two cultures are. My point is that I think many people by default sort of consider Turks like Arabs and also consider Arab the dominant culture. Absolutely Turks don't consider themselves Arabs.... but in anycase, Arabs have a very deep and rich culture and I'm sure it would be equally wrong to assume that makams were brought to Egypt and the Arabs just copied it all.... no, there was a mega exchange going on btw the cultures. For example, the sort of "light classical" concerts one can see in Turkey are sometimes call "Arabesk" style. . . cuz they are lighter and more rhythmic. We all know about the deep sombre side of Turkish music - - tasavuuf/dervish/sufi etc etc... but this Arabesk style (I guess to be a rub-off from Ottoman 500 year occupation of North Africa is like a happy party) Let's face it, Egypt is still part of Africa, and Africa is all about rhythm dancing singing enjoying...... I guess the further you go south, the more the party is rollin'!
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