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"Success" and "The Big E"


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#31 Edward Powell

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 05:18 PM


what really shocks me is the existance of this type of propaganda. It is almost like they are trying argue the fact that there is even an environmental issue. . . or even a future environmental issue. What does it take? Is it not obvious that even if everything would start to get better (environmentally) tomorrow, that WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DESTROYED is FAR beyond what is acceptable. Let's not even talk about what COULD happen... let's just have and honest look at the damage that has already been done - - - no body can deny that... it's there for the viewing.

I found it amazing, I was in Vancouver last year - and in case you had not heard, 90% of all pine trees in British Comumbia are not toast because of a deadly pine beatle - not killed off due to overly warm winters. You know, nobody in Vancouver was talking about that, and almost nobody even knew about it.
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#32 Guest_Guest_Matthew Bearne_*_*

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 06:06 PM

But going back to the point of the thread, if you take an environmentalist bunch of old stupidly rich fellas who like to dictate to poor people how they should be living - U2 for example..... :lol:

I mean:-

http://u2-atomic-edg....com/id159.html


I think he'd need to find a pretty big mule!!!!
:blush:



hahaaa... and they're almost always spoiled white guys who think they're doing everyone a favor...

politicians are bad enough but methinks imperialists in music/arts/culture are much worse...



If I remember rightly they played in Brazil, where the price of a ticket was two thirds the monthly minimum wage.

All hail the defenders of the poor :w00t:

#33 gazmungus

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 07:40 PM

hahaaa... and they're almost always spoiled white guys who think they're doing everyone a favor...

politicians are bad enough but methinks imperialists in music/arts/culture are much worse...


Aye, but wouldn't we all love to have a play in The Edge's toybox?

And I used to get laid a lot because I once looked a bit like Bono from some drunken angles - man, chicks are fucked up! :w00t:


If I remember rightly they played in Brazil, where the price of a ticket was two thirds the monthly minimum wage.

All hail the defenders of the poor :angry:


Sounds about the same as what they'd charge here in europe.... :lol:




But anyway - I have a 100% sure fire way to wipe out all environmental concerns.....

It involves a crate of lager and a vindaloo - and I'll let everyone know tomorrow morning if I have any recollection of any problem with the environment from the night before.... :blush:

now if only we can sustain this....

:lol:
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#34 Paul Shigihara

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 08:13 PM

what really shocks me is the existance of this type of propaganda.
It is almost like they are trying argue the fact that there is even an environmental issue. . .
or even a future environmental issue.


are you really shocked ?!?

propaganda is coming at you from left and right... everyday... on all channels...

what else is new ?

there are 'certain' similarities between the ecologists/greens and the anti-12tet-movement...
but as it happens so often there's much more money and special interests involved in ecology.
don't get me started on greenpeace...

#35 Edward Powell

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 08:22 PM

are you really shocked ?!?

:w00t:
i said shocked, not surprised :blush:

...i am a bit out of it, but i hear a lot of really intelligent people these days pissed off at Greens - - - it seems that there is a recent sort of movement of political opportunists USING 'greenism' to ride a wave of fear and fashion in order to gain power!? Tell me about this - I do not follow current politics.
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#36 Matthew Bearne

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 08:27 PM

propaganda is coming at you from left and right...


:w00t: Pun intended?

#37 Paul Shigihara

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 10:15 PM

Let's face it, what do musicians want these day? SUCCESS, right? And what does it mean to be successful these days?

coming back to the original question... i think it's not fundamentally different from any time/era during any 'higher' culture...
i guess there are different levels of success for a musician... -a minimum (even better... a maximum) of financial stability to be able to practice your art/profession -acceptance by your target audience (smaller or larger) and your peers is a must if you want to get 'out there'...

propaganda is coming at you from left and right...


:w00t: Pun intended?


definitely...

#38 Paul Shigihara

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 12:20 AM

Tell me about this - I do not follow current politics.


here's something to start with coming from a fellow canadian...

check it out if you have the time to read it:

http://greenspirit.c...1st_century.cfm

http://greenspirit.c...ble.cfm?msid=29

#39 gazmungus

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 08:13 AM

Tell me about this - I do not follow current politics.


here's something to start with coming from a fellow canadian...

check it out if you have the time to read it:

http://greenspirit.c...1st_century.cfm

http://greenspirit.c...ble.cfm?msid=29


Thanks for that Paul, I've been waiting to get around to looking into this chap......

The fun starts on page 4......


When I lived/worked in a pub in London, about 12 years back, there was an extreme lefty woman that worked there briefly, and she was an easy wind up....

One of the fellas she was 'seeing' was often working abroad (I can't remember where) but we told her that he was going to Poland for the seal clubbing - we thought that was funny and didn't think anyone would be so violently stupid, geographically idiotic or so blindly passionate - I just wish we had a video from when she went off like a french nuclear test, and it wasn't just her that bought it - I seem to remember it ending in violence, (well, actually it didn't end...)

If that reaction amonst 'educated' privalidged middle class white kids is the norm then we're fucked!!!!!


Thank god there's beer.
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#40 Paul Shigihara

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 08:46 AM

The fun starts on page 4......
......Thank god there's beer.


fyi... here's page 4...

Not all my former colleagues saw things that way. They rejected consensus politics and sustainable development in favor of continued confrontation and ever-increasing extremism. They ushered in an era of zero tolerance and left-wing politics. Some of the features of this environmental extremism are:

Environmental extremists are anti-human. Humans are characterized as a cancer on the Earth. To quote eco-extremist Herb Hammond, "of all the components of the ecosystem, humans are the only ones we know to be completely optional". Isn't that a lovely thought?

They are anti-science and technology. All large machines are seen as inherently destructive and unnatural. Science is invoked to justify positions that have nothing to do with science. Unfounded opinion is accepted over demonstrated fact.

Environmental extremists are anti-trade, not just free trade but anti-trade in general. In the name of bioregionalism they would bring in an age of ultra-nationalist xenophobia. The original "Whole Earth" vision of one world family is lost in a hysterical campaign against globalization and free trade.

They are anti-business. All large corporations are depicted as inherently driven by greed and corruption. Profits are definitely not politically correct. The liberal democratic, market-based model is rejected even though no viable alternative is proposed to provide for the material needs of 6 billion people. As expressed by the Native Forest Network, "it is necessary to adopt a global phase out strategy of consumer based industrial capitalism." I think they mean civilization.

And they are just plain anti-civilization. In the final analysis, eco- extremists project a naive vision of returning to the supposedly utopian existence in the garden of Eden, conveniently forgetting that in the old days people lived to an average age of 35, and there were no dentists. In their Brave New World there will be no more chemicals, no more airplanes, and certainly no more polyester suits.

Let me give you some specific examples that highlight the movement's tendency to abandon science and logic and to get the priorities completely mixed up through the use of sensationalism, misinformation and downright lies.



#41 gazmungus

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 09:26 AM

As expressed by the Native Forest Network, "it is necessary to adopt a global phase out strategy of consumer based industrial capitalism." I think they mean civilization.


My favourite quote....

:w00t:
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#42 Matthew Bearne

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 02:50 PM

They are anti-business. All large corporations are depicted as inherently driven by greed and corruption. Profits are definitely not politically correct. The liberal democratic, market-based model is rejected even though no viable alternative is proposed to provide for the material needs of 6 billion people. As expressed by the Native Forest Network, "it is necessary to adopt a global phase out strategy of consumer based industrial capitalism." I think they mean civilization.


I'd say that being 'anti-capitalist' by no means, means being 'anti-civilization'. If todays world with it's massive inequality, a minority having most of the wealth and power, wars for economic resources and 'interests' is civilization, then I'm a bit disappointed to be honest. And corporations are driven by greed, it's what they do, which I think is common knowledge. The fact that they're 'private tyrannies' (sorry to quote Chomsky, had to be done at some point :w00t:) with no democratic control means that corruption is pretty commonplace.

Now as for alternatives, do a google search and you'll find lots of alternative proposals to capitalism.

I've yet to read the whole thing, but that bit bothered me.

#43 rob

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 04:09 PM

...
I'd say that being 'anti-capitalist' by no means, means being 'anti-civilization'. If todays world with it's massive inequality, a minority having most of the wealth and power, wars for economic resources and 'interests' is civilization, then I'm a bit disappointed to be honest. And corporations are driven by greed, it's what they do, which I think is common knowledge. The fact that they're 'private tyrannies' (sorry to quote Chomsky, had to be done at some point :w00t:) with no democratic control means that corruption is pretty commonplace.

Now as for alternatives, do a google search and you'll find lots of alternative proposals to capitalism.
...

Sssh! Don't talk in church. Capitalism has become religion. You can't say anything negative about it or all the Walmart employees will get agitated and think that your trying to keep them from getting rich.

Capitalism itself has been corrupted by the corrupted stock system. Take the conversation that happened elsewhere on this board about musicians wanting to "make it" without putting in the work and look at the dot bomb crap the same way. Publicly traded corporations are amoral entities by design. Add in that people don't even know what companies they are invested in and are afraid that any negative news about any company might bring down the value of THEIR stocks and the system is doomed.

Conflating the issues of environmentalism and anti-globalization is disingenuous at best. The worse part is the portrayal of the anti-globalization movement as anti-capitalism. The problem with "globalization" in its current form is that it isn't market driven. The market-based model isn't rejected. The politically and militarily manipulated market-based model is what is questioned.

#44 gazmungus

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 05:43 PM

Now as for alternatives, do a google search and you'll find lots of alternative proposals to capitalism.

I've yet to read the whole thing, but that bit bothered me.


Read on! It's interesting shit.....

He's more pissed at their blatant lying than the capitalism thing.....

Us who dwell in the aforementioned mushroom farm should really get plain truth (even if we don't deserve it) but the depths of shit we have have to wade through just to achieve the status of universal sceptic.....

I nearly baulked when I read the 50000 extinct species first time round - and now this fella says it's all a crock of shit? Hang on, I can't go chasing round google etc, because I only have one lifetime and I was too stupid to go to university and get a Bsc, a phd or syphilis.

I think I'll start viewing the filthy child eating evil corporate capitalist greed merchants and the cabbage munching doom messenger eco-mentalist white middle class dredlock crusties as the same side..... :angry:

If for example (UK) journalists actually presented some simple facts instead of brutalising that poor one legged porn queen (ex Mrs McCartney) or the McCanns (or whoever) then..... :blush:

We still wouldn't have a fucking clue - or at least I won't anyway....


This subject exhausts even my appetite for laughing at the absurd - I'm out! :lol:


Who's up for a beer? :w00t:
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#45 Edward Powell

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 07:04 PM

I'm starting to get confused... are some of you out there actually in sympathy for the point of view expressed in the PAGE 4?? :lol:

...if there is then I have quite a few things to say - - - but if there isn't I would rather go back to my RagMakam Cd editing :rolleyes:
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