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Atonal cool or lame?


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#31 jahloon

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 08:11 AM

Which is why I bought L'il Miss Scale Oven, which is going to take a while to integrate into my system only because of school taking my time. (Those synths I can't convert I may have to burn at the stake... just kidding.)

Brilliant Kai!

But none of my synths / keyboards make the list. A little bit like hearing about fretless guitar and finding out all your guitars have frets.

Jah
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#32 Bent-Tonation

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 03:53 PM

Now this has become a very "Provocative" thread for the better I say..............Speaking of books, I truly enjoy Harry Partch's : A Genesis Of A Music and Partch's CD/VHS "Delusion Of The Fury" where at the end of the video Harry performs with his ensemble at UCLA, and one truly gets to experience the power of his instruments and sounds. :blush:
I also really enjoy Jon Catler's : The Nature Of Music, and here is a link you might enjoy (anyone). Jon Catler excerpt from the 2006 FretLess Fest NYC. :D

Also, a quick comment to ogami, I appreciate your comments, but to assume you know what notes I am going for on a original piece and considering my style is extremely presumptuous. I do appreciate your honesty, but my style of sound is very much different from Thal, Tim and Ned. As anyone can hear............I have many goals with my music, and in then end, it might not be for everyone. But who's music/sound is???

V
"Playing fretless guitar is like having sex without a condom. It is more dangerous & just feels better."
VVV

#33 Guest_shigihara_*

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 04:51 PM

here are the audio examples from

http://www.kylegann.com/tuning.html

you'll find the written explanations on the same page...



http://www.kylegann.com/seconds.mp3
http://www.kylegann.com/thirds.mp3
http://www.kylegann.com/fourths.mp3
http://www.kylegann.com/25-16,8-5.mp3
http://www.kylegann.com/JustD.mp3
http://www.kylegann.com/WTPscale.mp3

With the help of LMSO or Scala it should be possible to make
audio files for fretless practice...
how about it, Kai ?!?

re:Catler's clip... that's a pretty lame explanation of comma...
do we need just intonation procedures to play over blues changes ? :blush:
Are there any other clips of his with playing music ?

Now this has become a very "Provocative" thread for the better I say.....
V


maybe a 'Productive' thread ? :D

#34 Guest_Michael Vick_*

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 05:23 PM

re:Catler's clip... that's a pretty lame explanation of comma...
do we need just intonation procedures to play over blues changes ?
Are there any other clips of his with playing music ?


When the camera is fixed I will post more, and I really recommend learning alittle more about Catler before calling him "lame". His approach that day was for everyone (lay people and pros). Please take that into consideration...............I hope you all enjoy the rest of this thread, OUT.............Michael

#35 Guest_shigihara_*

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 06:25 PM

....I really recommend learning alittle more about Catler before calling him "lame".
His approach that day was for everyone (lay people and pros). Please take that into consideration...............


Don't you worry... I'm aware of JC (through his involvement with La Monte Young... )
and didn't call him 'lame', but was referring to his answer to an audience question...
just before he demonstrates why he tunes his guitar in that particular way.
I felt that wasn't entirely convincing coming from 'one of the world's leading innovators on microtonal guitar'...if you know what I mean... :D
It happens quite often that you hear people (guitarists in particular) talk about music and
when you actually hear them play you go: wtf... well, ok ?!?
But it's all good... we can always tune in or tune out. :blush:

#36 ogami

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 06:31 PM

Also, a quick comment to ogami, I appreciate your comments, but to assume you know what notes I am going for on a original piece and considering my style is extremely presumptuous. I do appreciate your honesty, but my style of sound is very much different from Thal, Tim and Ned. As anyone can hear............I have many goals with my music, and in then end, it might not be for everyone. But who's music/sound is???

V


is this MAV? i presume so. i don't clearly see what you're referinf too.
I don't aim a somebody, rather i sum of some posts and answer to the general idea i thought thoses posts have in common.
So if you could clarify what was presumptuous from me because now i don't really see.(i mean i do not see relation to one of my post)

thank you

#37 Guest_shigihara_*

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 06:44 PM

I also really enjoy Jon Catler's : The Nature Of Music


please enlighten me... did JC really solve the mysteries of the Harmonic Series ?

quoted from above link:

The much anticipated manual that reveals the mysteries of the Harmonic Series
and the evolution of Catler's 62-note per octave Just Intonation scale.

#38 Kai

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 07:00 PM

With the help of LMSO or Scala it should be possible to make audio files for fretless practice...
how about it, Kai ?!?


Sigh... :blush: :( Like I said, school takes the bulk of my time. Ideally, I'd love to do this, but I haven't really had time even to finish the pieces I started this year for my planned CD Chilled Alaaps.

And the first thing I'd want to tackle would be the implementation and demonstration of Hindustani srutis - with guidance from, among other sources, a book my teacher showed me when I had questions about the interval differences from ET: a tome on North Indian music by Alain Daniélou, as well as another one by him.

And Michael, re Harry Partch - thanks for the links! I may have mentioned before that back in my Berklee days I got turned onto Partch by a guitarist from whom I used to obtain, um, recreational substances.... :D Genesis of a Music should be required reading in all music schools.
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench - a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side..." - Hunter S. Thompson
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#39 Stalking Butler

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 05:28 AM

Atonal, Shmatonal. If I like it, I like it. Hell, it could be played on garbagecans for all I care. Do I understand it? (Atonal...) Not really my bag... besides I'm currently obsessed with learning my 'western' notes... lol
Appreciate it and like it? Absolutely.

#40 Guest_G_*

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 09:28 PM

ok maby my brain is inferior or something but atonal music just dont do it for me

like this

kinda cool, definitly has an out of this world vibe but i cant even stand watchign the whoel video (no offence to dudeguy playing, he is obviously good at this atonal thing, which is why i use it as an example). its just not doin it for me.

im totally down with not followign scales so strictly (you know lotsa accidentals) but i prefer shit that stays within the octave broken into 12 tones system.

so,

what do you think of atonal music

cool? not cool? to weird? not weird enough?


i have heard mv play for years and i have played some with him. he is by far one of the most unique players out there with or without frets. i have heard him play sounds even on the drum kit that were striking because of the meter shifts etc.
g

#41 jahloon

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 10:54 PM

I really like MAVs music, its innovatjng, refreshing, spontanious, keep listenjng!
Play the blues guitar with your soul, but play the fretless guitar with your spirit.
Author of the book "Fretless Guitar The Definitive Guide" fretlessguitar.co.uk

#42 Guest_G5_*

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:03 AM

I really like MAVs music, its innovatjng, refreshing, spontanious, keep listenjng!


i agree and i forgot to add the 5 ealier

G5

#43 Chilly Willy

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 01:18 PM

I first thought that Atonal meant "not in tune". In Dutch if you are Asocial, you are not being social so I presumed it also meant the same in music. Then Tom Baker was kind enough to tell me it was music not based one one scale and a root note.

I personally have trouble listening to MAV's music. Actually quite a lot. I've tried many times but it's definitively not my cup of tea. Just like most of the recordings in the double fretless cd.

I also read that Ed deGenaro says if you change keys you are out of tune? Fuck, all this reading seems like a University study.

I personally like King Crimson a lot. It's not easy to listen to but some how I dig it.

I never liked things that are weird just for the sake of being weird.

I also listen to the cd of Neil Harvestick a few times. Like it and latter on realized it was microtonal, not because I heard it but because I read it. I guess the man is doing a fantastic job because he is playing weird and it doesn't sound weird. That is the difference with MAV's music. To me it sound "false" or not tuned up. Arabic music, Turkish music and music from India use different intervals but it doesn't bother me, I can listen to it and enjoy it. Why? Because it is "tuned", hell, I don't know, I just like it.

When art become cerebral it looses a bit of it's magic. When you study music in school it also looses it's magic. When I learn a song from another artist that I really like it also looses it's magic because you know what is happening.

Art in general, in my opinion, is a feeling that you can't explain. We humans always want to understand everything with intellect. We want to know what happens after we die so we create religions instead of accepting the facts, we just don't know. Dig it. Live your life and enjoy it, don't harm others and the rest will come.

When I go to a museum and I see a painting I like it or not. Period, I couldn't care less who painted it, why he painted it or with what he painted it.

When I see a girl, I like her or not and I don't try to understand why, I just feel it, I've heard some theories that it has to do with the proportions of a face, the famous golden rule. I think it's a crack of "mierda" and you just feel things or not.

I might be very stupid or limited but I trust my instinct and not my intellect. Why do animals anticipate danger better than human beings? Because they are connected to nature and don't read books about theories.....

So in my humble opinion everybody is doing something and it's a matter of liking it or not. A lot of this pompous talk is plain boring and goes in circles.

So I pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday, then I get on my knees and pray, WON"T GET FOOLED AGAIN!

:blush:

#44 Guest_g5_*

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:58 PM

The "OFFICIAL" Site of "ATONAL-HOLE.com, where every beat is irregular & every note is key!"


this is from v's site and originality is hard to digest sometimes

#45 Guest_gazza_*

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 03:53 PM

When I see a girl, I like her or not and I don't try to understand why, I just feel it,


I've felt that too!

can be embarrasing in short trousers :D

:(

ahem!

One thing I can add to this that hasn't been covered...

Is that I find the "lame" (from the thread head) comes in strongest when many guitarists say shite like "I'm so sick of western music! It's all been done before" when what they really mean to say "I'm sick of Am, C, G, D7 and that SRV chord" Thankfully no-one on the board so far is thus..... :blush:

I had a bit of a row a wee while back with a 'player' whose (fretted) Bb7 chord sounded like an elephant backing through a childrens' hospital ward due to his crap technique and uneven RH pressure. When I told him to sort it out he got all pissed off and ranted ponting at his electronical tuner.

He got told to go ****.

Bloody guitarists and their little 'boxes of notes' and their 'caged' and their 'gas syndrome'......

Sadly I feel the pressure's only going to get greater for folk to have to verbally explain to others what they're trying to do - other than just doing it.


Guitar playing is the new line dancing.


:(




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